Preditors and Editors

From the comments tail on the first Peekaboo post comes this complaint about P&E in a comment from the P&E folks:

"Here's an interesting thing about the Predators site. We can't find ANY contact information. Can you?

So, here we have someone that purports to be an industry watchdog, that gives no contact information, or ability to discuss what they promulgate... doesn't that give you cause to question what THEY are saying?

(We have had one author say they found a contact email, and we suggested that they ask Preditors 'why?', but they never got a response.. so... we suggest that you make up your own mind based on the professionalism of our interaction, with us, as real people, not some 'shadow' person/entity that is unaccountable.

We've been at this for years, and we haven't changed our name or ran, we've stayed and fought, and the only real person that loses is the first time author that can't get the time of day from most agencies. Now, back to business."

Ok, let's start with the basics.
First, an email address for P&E is listed in under "email". Plain letters. Right there. I've used it myself, and I looked it up five minutes ago before I posted it to make sure it was still there.

Second, I've had multiple conversations with P&E under my business name. All were to update or correct information. ALL were handled swiftly and smoothly.

I've had more than one conversation with them as Miss Snark, and that too was prompt and courteous.

Yes I'm sure they make mistakes because yanno, they're human. So what.
If you think they've got incorrect info about your agency, write and tell them.
I've spot checked my own listing, colleagues and random folks. It looks pretty reliable to me.

These guys, along with others provide an INVALUABLE service.
Every agent should embrace them fervently, because the liars, cheaters, scammers, and worst..hobbyists, disgrace our profession.


Jon said...

I find the annonymous message interesting and it reminds me of a scam agency who balks everytime Dave at P&E ruffles their feathers.

We need industry watchdogs like Ann Crispin and Victoria Strauss at Writer Beware. I've gone through the maze of scammers for years (Woodside rings a bell) and know for a fact if it wasn't for these advocates of writers we would be fleeced at every opportunity.

Sandra Ruttan said...

Funny, like Most Excellent Snarkilicious One, I was able to find their email. And I've even used it before! And it works too! Dave wrote back, followed up on the information I sent, and it wasn't long before it was up on the P&E website.

I agree with Jon - the services of Dave and others are of tremendous benefit to those trying to find a legitimate press or agent to submit work to.

No doubt the anonymous post was likely made by someone who didn't like being 'outed' as a scammer on P&E.

Dave Kuzminski said...

Just for your info, predators is deliberately misspelled as Preditors for trademark purposes. ;)

SAND STORM said...

Dave Kuzminski has been doing this for years and is a completely honest and trustworthy source.
You can see some of Daves 1700+ posts at the Absolute Water Cooler forum. Sub form Bewares and Background check. Victoria also posts there often.

Anonymous said...

Off topic: I walked into my local BORDERS today, and asked a very nice clerk if I could talk to someone about ordering my book which is out very soon. She came back after a few minutes and handed me a Borders Brochure and said I could contact them and/or bring my book when it comes out to so-and-so at the store and she'll take a look. She also wanted to take my name.

I politely thanked her, didn't give my name, and moved on.

Jeez! Is this what corporate greysuits have done to bookstores? I've proably dropped a couple of grand at this one store in the last several years, but never mind. I suppose this is what becomes of PublishAmerica spitting out "Confederate Sonnets" and such and then these cranks walk off the street and badger Borders. My experience at Barnes and Noble was much better, ie, they ordered the book!

Did I give up too soon? I guess I thought, well, my publisher is a big NY house, what the hell, they'll probably have a few copies on the shelf anyway.

What are your thoughts on running into the corporate mentality at your "local bookstore", Miss Snark?

Christine said...

Dave? Not Dave! LOL. geez, Dave, you can't catch a break anywhere can you?

I like Dave. Nice Dave. Dave good.

SadieMarriedLady said...

Hello Miss Snark,

I enjoy your witty take on the publishing industry and believe you'll have George Clooney someday, however the use of "yanno" is uh...not good. I understand not wanting to put "you know" because it's awfully sterile, but "yanno" reads like piano and that's even worse than you know, ya know?

Miss Snark said...

oops, sorry Dave.

Dave Kuzminski said...

Um, no problem, but I didn't expect you to post that. Was just letting you know in case someone else brought it up. Oh well.

In the meantime, may you trounce that editor. Uh, she doesn't handle SFF, does she? ;)

bordermoon said...

Anonymous -- IMHO, you should have left your name and card, if you had one, and a flyer about your book, if you had one. Any confusion about the book being self-published would easily be cleared up when you spoke to so-and-so. And it's also possible the clerk thought you wanted to set up a signing at the store, in which case you definitely need to speak to so-and-so.

It's also possible that the clerk had just started working there, had absolutely no idea what you were talking about, and was making nice and bumping you up to someone who might know what you wanted. (Believe it or not, people who work in bookstores and in libraries can be completely clueless about the publishing industry.)

another anonymous writer said...

Anonymous Borders-hater, I'm a bit confused... what did they do wrong? So you wanted to talk to someone about ordering your book, and when she said that the person to talk to wasn't in and could she get your name, you refused to give it? How is she supposed to pass on information about you or your book if you won't give your name? Or is the problem that they wanted to wait for your book to come out? My response in this situation would be more along the lines of, "I'll get my publisher, Big NY Publishing House, to send an ARC."

I attended a booksellers seminar for writers recently where we learned that most of the ordering is done not at local stores, but instead on a national level, with the exception of local-interest style books. The number of copies per store is usually set on the large scale level,w ith individiual event managers ordering more for a signing, local author, etc. Did you want more copies in this store because you were a local author? I'm a bit confused as to what actually happened that made you so miffed...

Christine said...

I agree with the bookstore thing. Damn beurocrats.

Jon said...

You can see some of Daves 1700+ posts at the Absolute Water Cooler forum.

Which is pretty active right now on the discussion of agent fees or not!

Question is how to manage the slush pile without resources an agent can use so good writing gets filtered to the top.

No pay no gain?

anon4 said...

I emailed Preditors and Editors one about RoseDog books, and never received a reply, but I never thought of this as being dodgy. I still don't think it is - and their email was fairly easy to find.

Anne Merril said...

I believe "yanno" is now officially copyrighted Snark.

Dave Kuzminski said...

Ah, but yanno brings in a distinct taste of NYC that many other places can't replicate. I vote keep it!

koala said...

Took me a while to figure out what yanno actually meant. But now I have, I love it, don't yanno.

Dave Kuzminski said...

Unfortunately, we regularly encounter email boxes that are full or off-line because of server problems when responding from P&E. We generally try a second time, but the amount of email we get prohibits too many attempts. For instance, right now there are 197 emails in the P&E email box, another 20 in my personal email folder, and 3 more in a super secret folder that few individuals have access to. But for the record, we always attempt a reply at least once when one is obviously wanted.

Though it would be nice, I guess, to always say you're welcome after we're thanked for a reply, we don't because that just starts up a chain that clogs everyone's email.

However, if you're sending us threats, we may not reply. Then we ignore you, so the rule doesn't always count in those instances.

Candice Gilmer said...

Once, I emailed Preditors and Editors about an email that I'd recieved, basically a spam email about a "publishing company," and I emailed P&E about it because I thought it was fishy.

I recieved a reply within 2 days, thanking me for the tip as well as saying they'd keep an eye on these individuals.

I appreciated their prompt reply and politeness.

Also, I use their resource before sending out any query letter to anyone... :) It's a great site.

Anonymous said...

I found my agent through P&E; as a result, I recommend the site to all my writerish friends ;)

Keep up the good work!

Mac said...

P&E fights the good fight, and Dave is definitely one of the guys in white hats.

Just...err...yanno--in case anyone still wondered. *grin*

Bernita said...

Doesn't their grammar suck...just a little?

Dave Kuzminski said...

So does our punctuation on occasion. ;)

Bernita said...

Not yours, Dave.