Be Miss Snark!


I have an inquiry about a book. To make an extremely long story short, my mother has been crafting a book for over a decade.

All i am asking is for a direction to help her go through the publishing process. She had an Agency by the name of, "Lee shore" but she became disheartened after their editors took a look at it. I dont know if their even a legitmate agency, being that im not familar with the field. They had a high interest in it, but my mother felt that they didnt specialize in romance. I suppose shes was looking for something a little more prestigious and more informative on her
book. Is their any advice or any agencies i should look at to get her book rolling?

Miss Snark is overcome by the idea of crafting a book and must retire with her cluegun...err...glue gun and Augusten Burroughs edition scissors.

Here's your chance to Be Miss Snark.

All replies in the comments section appreciated.


Anonymous said...

If she's writing romance, she should join RWA (Romance Writers of America) and start learning the industry there. It's like an automatic clue gun.

Manic Mom said...

Self-publish it. booklocker.com is an excellent avenue for you to look into. They can help you help your mother get it published, your mother will be happy, and it won't cost too much.

If your mother's heart is not into finding an agency, then self-publishing is the way to go. If she's been working on this book a decade, it'll take twice as long to find an agent. I'm not saying it to be mean, but finding the agent is more difficult than penning The Great American novel.

Manic Mom said...

Update to previous posted comment I made:

Oh, and make me a gin and call George for me. I need a foot massage, yanno!
(Pretending to be Miss Snark)

Miss Snark said...

(you don't make a gin here, you swill it directly from the pail)

pjd said...

I commend you for wanting to help your mother, dog bless her, get her book published.

I agree with manic mom if you want to go the easy route. If you want to go the route that your mom no doubt wants you to go, then dedicate a week (no sleeping!) to reading all the snarkives as well as all the web sites of agents in the romance genre. Miss Snark's front page has an excellent collection of links to get you started, and most of the good agents have samples of query letters, how to approach agents, etc. Kristin Nelson's "Pub Rants" blog has been doing an Agenting 101 if you want to learn about the biz.

Basically, to go the whole nine yards, you have to treat it like it's your book and learn the industry. As every newcomer learns, there is no shortcut to success (OK, well, there is, but it depends on already being famous and hopefully very photogenic.)

If you're not prepared to go the whole nine yards, then self-publishing is the way to go. I recently attended the memorial of a man I knew occasionally, and he had self-published two books. Sold only to friends & family, print-on-demand, but there they were, spiffy and professionally bound, real honest-to-goodness books, right among the other memorabilia of his life.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry to tell you that your mother's chances of finding an agent or being published by a trade publisher are not good.

1. She has you doing her bidding for her rather than doing it herself. Why did she not do some research about agents during the last decade of her writing? Why is she lost as to how to proceed at this stage instead of having done what everyone else who is serious does>> learn about the business of agenting and publishing by reading books and articles about it?

2. It is no an agent's job to help your mother find her way. Tell your mother that all the information she needs about agents is readily available online and that you refuse to do the work for her.

3. If you are your "mother" and hiding behind her as a cover so as not to feel too embarassed, you must accept that writing a manuscript is just the beginning and that if you are not willing to do the work required to learn about the publishing industry, its best to put the manuscript in a drawer and forget about it. Or, be prepared to learn about the various print-on-demand and vanity publishers who will be delighted to take your money and make the process of your holding a copy of your bound mauscript in your hand as painless as possible.

Sara said...

See this thread at Absolute Write for information on Lee Shore:

Lee Shore

On that site, people share information about their experiences with hundreds of agents and publishers. Always check there before dealing with anyone in the industry.

Unless you intend to self-publish, never pay ANYONE to read, edit or publish your manuscript. Not one cent.

If you do self-publish, find a printer with no set-up costs that prints on demand. You don't need an agent or a "publisher" for that.

Anonymous said...

Lee Shore Agency is a "not recommended" on Preditors and Editors.

Southern Writer said...

You poor soul. You're new to Miss Snark's blog, aren't you? That's okay. We were all new here, once.

I'm not going to suggest self-publishing for your mom because you said she hoped for something prestigious. The publishing process can take years. A prestigious publishing process can take decades.

First, you must have a good book; well-written, complete, and fully edited. Your mother must have done something right if she got a professional in the business, whether agent or editor, to read it. My guess is that the book had some problems. You might consider consulting what's called a creative editor or book doctor, but they can be expensive. If your mother can't afford to do that, then she should try to join or start a critique group in your town, or online.

The next step is to write a synopsis of that book, if it's a work of fiction. A non-fiction book is handled differently.

At that point, you should get a current copy of The Writer's Market, which is the industry Bible. You can borrow one from the library, but make sure it's this year's copy. Last year's edition is like trying to use last year's calendar. In it, you will find names, addresses, and information for small presses, publishers, and agents. You'll want to look for one of the latter. Under each agent's name, you will find what kinds of books they're looking for this year. When you find one who specializes in representing the kind of book you(r mother) wrote, send them a query letter. Sometimes you can do this online. Follow the writer's guidelines to the letter. "No simultaneous submissions" is the only rule you may break during this process.

A query letter is a short letter to the agent describing the book, and any previous publishing credits. Keep it under one page and DO NOT forget to include a self-addressed stamped envelope. Keep track of when and where you send them. If the query is rejected, never, ever write back and ask, "but whyyyyy?" There are online writer's forums for that.

The query needs to be a great sales pitch because the competition is brutal. When you are finished here, if you go to http://www.evileditor.blogspot.com/you can learn all about query letters from Evil Editor.

Never pay an agent to read or edit the manuscript. Beware of false agents! Remember Google is your friend. Look under Predators and Editors or The 20 Worst Literary Agents.

Now wait to hear back. In the Writer's Market, agents usually give you a guideline of how long it may take them to get back to you. Don't believe it. It will take twice as long. Good news never comes in an envelope.

If your book is very, very good, the agent may contact you and ask to read a few chapters, or the whole thing. Give them exactly what they ask for, no more, no less (but don't chop off text in the middle of a sentence or paragraph). Don't bother rushing it over to the post office to send it overnight. When it's received, it will go at the bottom of stack of manuscripts that reach the ceiling. Be prepared to wait six months or more before you hear from them again.

Eventually, the agent will either pass, or agree to represent the book. This means he or she will try to sell it to publishers for you, and take care of all the negotiations, contracts, and so forth. Remember: you hire the agent, but the agent chooses you, not the other way around. If you should get multiple offers for representation, hire the best, and get out of their way. Let them do their job.

waylander said...

The Lee Shore Agency are well known as a bunch of scammers.


whitemouse said...

One thing you (and your mom) really need to do is find out what kind of scam artists exist in publishing, so that you don't get caught by one.

A good place to start is the Preditors and Editors page. You can search an agent's name and see what is known about them. Lee Shore is listed as a suspicious customer; your mom's instincts were right. Those were NOT good people to get involved with.

I'm not too happy about everyone here immediately suggesting that your mother should pay to publish her book. I think she should educate herself on how the industry works (reading Miss Snark's archives is a GREAT place to start), then exhaust all legitimate forms of getting the book published (ones where the money flows to her, not away) before even considering self-publishing.

You see, realistically, a self-published book won't ever wind up on bookshelves, and it sounds like that's what she wants.

However, your mom should accept the fact that first novels are generally not good enough to publish, no matter how long the author spent finessing their baby. She will likely need to take what she has learned writing this book, and write another, better book. And maybe another one after that.

However, not getting published doesn't diminish your mom's accomplishment. Congratulate her for it! Something like 90% of people say they would like to write a book in their lifetime, and only about 3% ever actually finish one. She's done something great, and she should be proud of it.

But if I could give both you and her one piece of advice on what to do now that the book is finished, it would be to EDUCATE yourself on what is involved in writing a book and in publishing one, and what pitfalls exist with both processes. There's a lot of information online, and there's a lot of information in your local library. Get reading, and good luck.

randomsome1 said...


Use it. Live it. Love it.

Develop a habit of googling things with the word "scam" in the string.

Seriously, find out if she wants it in bookstores or if she just wants to see it in print. Then decide where you'll go from there: through traditional publishers, or through the best-sounding vanity press.

If you want it to be a book that your kids/grandkids won't headdesk at later, though, you'll want to get a professional editor and/or go through a traditional press. Vanity presses tend to kneecap editors by telling them to not give criticism or make any major changes to the story, even if the author has a cat dramatically die on one page but be alive and in the house two chapters later.

Jeb said...

I have a Mom. She, like our querent's (querier's?) Mom, has been writing a novel (the same one) for a decade or longer. Hearken unto me, for I ken well whereof I speak: Point her in the direction of a novice novel-writers group and run like HELL.

I, who routinely submit short fiction and occasionally sell something and even more rarely win a little prize for writing, have been aware for more than a decade that anything I submit must be better and more readable and more topical than 95% of everything crossing any given editor's desk on any given day in order to have a chance at the printed page. Top 1-2% is better.

Math is not my mother's strength; she does not 'get' these percentages. And she's a dedicated, but not talented, writer. And she's my mother, who still thinks that anything I can do (after spending 5 years in uni and 20+ years honing my craft for the reward of a few fleeting happy-dances before magazine racks in the big chain bookstores), she can do as well or better.

Mothers do not need to hear from their children anything but "I'm glad you're being creative and enjoying it. I hope you find someone else writing in this area who will be able to give you useful tips on where to go with this. Now, how about those Lakers?"


Anonymous said...

Reading the Snarkives, the Writer Beware blog and listen to Mur Lafferty's "I Should Be Writing" Podcast should provide you and your mother with a basic understanding of the industry. Writer Beware can even give you info on agents, editors and POD publishers (so you know they're legit or not), but you should preferably ask before contacting or talking with the person you're unsure about.

If you want to go the self-publishing route, use Lulu.com. Getting distribution costs $100 (new price) but if you do the other stuff yourself, it won't cost you a thing.

Z.F. Blotsed said...

Dear Daughter,

1. Does your mother want your help? I'd caution you to give friendly encouragement and nothing more. Writers can be touchy.

2. Would your mother enjoy a writer's conference? Take her to one. (and yes, follow up with Romance Writers of America-RWA). She'll learn something about the business and meet other interesting authors and wannabe authors who can help her.

3. Is your mother writing anything besides this one novel? Encourage her to move on to her second novel. Or branch out to stories, letters and editorials, recipes, anything else. Writer's need distance and perspective to create their best. Chances are as she works on something else, she'll have more ideas on her first novel (her first love!)

4. Check out Lulu.com. But before she prints/publishes her book on her own, get a professional editor (someone who knows how and when to capitalize, who understands subject-verb agreement, who loves punctuation challenges, and who also has a handle on point of view).

5. Moms and writers like to be pampered. Writing is hard on the hands, wrists, shoulders, eyes and brain. Get her a manicure, massage and a restful day at the spa (with cucumber slices on her eyes!).

Snaraliciously yours,
Wannabe Miss Snark

Alison said...

Buy a copy of the Writers Handbook, basically a list of agencies, publishers and whatever else a writer might need.

Each entry will contain a list of what that particular agent or publisher deals with, so it should be easy to find an agent who specialises in romance.

Remember that reputable agents don't charge reading fees.

It's probably worth getting the novel critiqued by a few readers to make sure it's the best it can be.

Ray Goldensundrop said...


Lee Shore is the opposite of Windward Coast.

Lee Shore is a song recorded by C, S, N & Y.

All along the lee shore
Shells lie scattered in the sand
Winking up like shining eyes, at me
From the sea

Lee Shore Co. is in Pittsburgh, winking up at you and me. It isn't anywhere near the sea.

Bonnie Shimko said...

This letter isn't worth anybody's time. It's a hoax.

Christine said...

If you really want to self-publish, Lulu is better. Cheaper, I mean. You just have to make sure your ms is in perfect shape, because they're really just a printer. You can buy your own ISBN and their global distribution package, but the good thing is you don't have to buy any more copies than you need. Or you don't buy an ISBN, leave it private and just get copies for yourself.

Other than that, if she's set on the traditional route, get her into a writing group (there are plenty even on-line) so she can get some critiques and see if it really is as good as she thinks it is.

Anon's advice is also good. RWA is a great group, and she'll find lots of other Romance writers to hang out with.

Miss Snark said...

hoax? I thought I was pretty good at sniffing those out. Why do you think so Bonnie? I may need to hone my hoax sniffing snout!

Linda Adams said...

I just dropped in on Predators and Editors to check on Lee Shore--he is "not recommended." It's important to do the research on each name before submitting:

Predators and Editors:

Writer Beware
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/ (They have a blog, too, which is worth reading)

Once she finds out which ones are legit, then she should research the individual agent to see what kind of material they've been selling. I've noticed that some agents list every genre possible in the Writer's Market, but further research shows their sales in a few core areas. Research will help her target it more effectively. With everything being online now, she can find a lot of information on the Internet. Especially look for interviews with specific agents because this will provide helpful information.

Recommended resources:

Peter Rubie's The Everything Get Published Book and his other book, Writer's Market FAQs.

Ric said...

Didn't read like a hoax to me.

I will say, however, that I'm highly impressed by the comments. Miss Snark has been teaching us well.

Patricia Bates said...

To be inspired to write and to actually do the writing and go through the whole process of publishing is a journey of its own.

Maybe your Mon is prepared for that yet. There is a reason for everything and I think your Mon should first find out why she didn't follow through the whole process.

Only then can she take some action.

Sue said...

What almost everyone says ... (I don't believe in book doctors at any cost.) If she wants an evaluation of her writing, strengths and weaknesses, she should find a good critique group (many have rules to guard against ego-bashing, alas, a fault among writers.) The first post that suggested looking into the RWA is a good one.

Osama Bin Tin Man said...

Miss Snark,

Why do literary comics pursue innocence with scissors in their hands?

Sherry D said...

First, tell your mother to not mention she has been 'crafting' the book, and even more importantly, tell her to NOT mention she's been crafting it for 'over a decade'! Is Mom willing to revise and rewrite to make this viable? Has she submitted the work to multiple publishers or just the one? She needs to send it to six at a time, but be sure she keeps good records of their responses and how long something has been at each publisher. I can't help wondering if Mom has ever taken writing classes or been a member of a writing group. There is SO much to tell a newbee, and not enough time and space. Good luck.

Another Dejected Writer said...

I can’t figure out if this is somebody who is writing in on behalf of their mother, of if it’s someone who has seen the kind of response ineptitude yields and is hiding behind that archetypal figure of mother in order to shield themselves from a potential backlash.

Assuming we don’t have another Norman Bates on our hands, I think the advice is clear.

Just because someone writes a book, doesn’t mean that it deserves to be published. Some writers pound out four, five, ten books before they figure out how to get it right. What you/your mom need to do is be objective about the manuscript in question. Is it compelling, does it draw the average reader (who has no relation to the author, no stake in preserving their feelings) in? Is it really well-written? Would it stand up in the marketplace next to the bestselling authors whose books are similar? Is the grammar/spelling/punctuation spot-on perfect? Judging from that train wreck of an email you sent, you’ll want to seek an outside opinion on the latter.

As noted, your mother’s literary agent is/was a scam artist. Not to beat you/your mom up when you/your mom are down, but there is no excuse for this in an age of information that’s so readily available. If you can find Miss Snark, you can find Writer’s Beware, Preditors and Editors, or Absolute Write—and no, I won’t link to any of those, because dammit, that’s what Google is for.

Find a writer’s group, get the manuscript polished up like a shiny gem, and only AFTER you’ve busted your ass—like everyone else out there who makes it—start looking for an agent. Prestige is reserved for the prestigious for a reason.

If all you/your mother want is a copy of the book in your grubby little hands without putting anymore work into it, then you can have that for less than $20 at lulu.com. But know this, you go the self-published route, consider the book dead unless you manage to sell tens of thousands of copies on your own (which doesn’t happen, unless of course, you go out and bust your ass). You’ll never get a publisher to look at it because it will forever be considered reprint fodder, unless you can demonstrate a strong sales record AND a sales potential that would make reprinting and mass distribution worthwhile.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the people who say your mother should get the book professionally edited. In general that's very expensive and you can get the same sort of advice elsewhere for much less, or for free.

She needs to join a critique group - real or online - and have them look at it. Or hand out the manuscript to a few friends who are good readers.

You should not be one of those friends, since you clearly have a problem with punctuation, spelling, capitalization and possessive apostrophes.

If she joins a crit group, she will also have to read and comment on other people's work (to "pay her dues"). This is an excellent way to become more critical of one's own work.

There are also online workshops (fairly cheap, eg. run by RWA) that teach basic plotting, characterization, what the market is looking for, etc. You can get much of the same information by googling.

So start googling.

(My feeling is that anyone who admits to using Lee Shore might be writing a hoax - can someone with enough savvy to find Miss Snark's blog really be taken in by that scammer? - but my advice is given on the off-chance the letter is real.)

desert snarkling said...

I disagree with manic mom that finding an agent is harder than writing the great American novel--or any novel.

Writing a novel well is hard, hard, hard. Looking for an agent is time-consuming, but it's not actually difficult, in the way spending years learning how to put sentences together so that they're as compelling to others as they are to you is.

If someone is finding searching for an agent harder than writing their novel, they probably haven't put enough work into their novel.

Poohba said...

randomsome1 gave an excellent tip. Whenever I'm feeling the least-bit suspicious about any product or service, I Google it with the word "scam" afterwards. If someone's had a problem with that company, you will hear about it!

lizzie26 said...

"...crafting a book...." Let's see, little sparkly thingies, pink ribbon (for romance), that trusty glue gun, scissors, and four small wheels to "get her book rolling."

Nah, not a hoax, that inquiry to Miss Snark. The author of it is just trying to sound writerly.

C.E. Petit said...

If our glamorous host will allow me to mention a "competitor"'s name in the comments (and if not, no hard feelings), I highly recommend Don Maass's Writing the Breakout Novel as reading for serious fiction-writers. I don't agree with every bit of advice in the book, but it is filled with wisdom about the way commercial fiction works, both in the writing sense and the business sense.

If one does decide to self-publish, I cannot recommend a vanity press masquerading as a self-publishing operation. I'm not going to name names in this post—after all, this isn't my blog!—but several of the names mentioned upstream in the comments are in reality vanity presses, not self-publishing systems. I highly recommend the Writer Beware website.

Last, and far from least, if an author wants to actually sell his/her books to anyone other than immediate family, it's a good idea to have someone who really understands the technology involved in printing the book (such as an advanced graphic-arts student at most four-year colleges) design the cover. The covers available as "templates" through online services are uniformly awful and in any event inappropriate for a romance novel!

Writerious said...

John Dana once said, "Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." The same holds true for those who dare to write. Therefore, go to the library. Go straight to the library. Find a good book on writing and publishing romances, and an armload of good books on writing and publishing.

Read them. Read them all.

Better yet, hand them over to your mother and have her read them.

This will put both of you in a much better position to market her manuscript without getting ripped off by scam agencies and scummy vanity publishers.

Don't self-publish until you've read up thoroughly on self-publishing, understand what it is, and understand some of the business aspects of going into the publishing business yourself.

Anonymous said...

I prefer "paid-to-have-it-printed" over "self-published".

Malia said...

You're all so helpful. Bah, to that.

The Mom needs to be shot with the clue-gun and learn like the rest of us. Without the ability to research the market herself -- how the flock does she ever expect to get published?

Malia obviously in need of mucho gin pails

Christine said...

Yes, and buy your mother these books, in addition to the Donald Maas one...
"Eats, Shoots and Leaves"
"Elements of Style"
"Self-Editing for Fiction Writers"
And many suggest "On Writing" by Stephen King. I've never read it, but I hear it's wonderful.

And maybe "The First Five Pages".

You can get them all at the bookstore or on Amazon. This will be a HUGE favor and nice thing to do for your mother.

salty said...

southern writer i enjoyed your comments, basic but always worth repeating (i never learn anything the first time, do you?)

Sherry D (again) said...

The chances that your mother's book will be bought by a 'prestigious' publisher are somewhere between a longshot and an impossibility. Writing is not an innate talent; no one is a born writer. Some people have a knack, but it takes education and perseverence. Give Mom a gift: send her to school. If she finishes an Advanced Writing Class at a reputable school, she may eventually sell something.

Pepper Smith said...

You've gotten a lot of good advice upthread already. If she wants to self-publish, try through Lulu.com. Just make sure you both understand that self-published books don't generally get into bookstores, and neither do vanity press published books.

Honestly, my first bit of advice, and the most important at this point, is if your mother's spent ten years working on this book, if she's serious about trying to get it published, and she wants to make it the best it can be, she needs to get into a critiquing group, or at least find a critiquing partner who knows spelling and grammar and can write well. Many places have groups that meet face to face on a monthly or weekly basis. You might try checking at the library or at the local bookstores. She should expect to do some critiquing as well as get some critiquing. This is the only way to really polish her work, because writers often don't see their own mistakes on paper.

ONLY AFTER THAT should you go looking for an agent. Print out this page and make sure you copy down the website addresses if they're given only as links. Check out the information there. Don't sign with anyone who wants money up front. Why should they work hard trying to place her book, or even work at all? She's already given them what they wanted, her money, and they'll string her along just as long as she keeps opening the checkbook.

delilah said...

I love it when the snarklings twitter and spread their feathery wings protectively over a fledgling.

Even though we can fly into a frenzy over some issues, we come to Miss Snark's writing nest mostly to be supportive of one another and to be entertained by her humor and learn from her wisdom.

Sal said...

TNH had a great post On the getting of agents. Read it. Read the comments tail.

Read the Writer Beware Web site.

Read Ann Crispin and Victoria Strauss' Writer Beware! blog.

Read Victoria Strauss' The Safest Way to Search for an Agent

Check out the Caveat Scrivener - Ask Ann section of Speculations.

Check out the Caveat Scrivener section of Speculations.

Follow some of the links in my Agents category.

Follow some of the links in my Scams category.

Agent Query Search with the keyword "romance"

Search Publishers Marketplace for agent and click the []Romance box.

Buena suerte.

Zonk said...

Well, John Gardner did write about 'crafting the fictional dream' - but since this is a romance novel, perhaps it's more of a quilting...

Anonymous said...

Oh, don't take Lee Shore seriously--go straight to Publish America for a life changing, never to be forgotten (no matter how hard you try) "publishing" experience.

This is, of course, if your mother is similar to the one who raised Norman Bates.

Oh. You LIKE your mother?

And you realize she's not got a snowball's chance in Hades of turning her book into anything readable?

Then it's off to Lulu dot com so she can have something in print to show the family.

If she wants to be the next Sandra Brown that's going to take more effort.

Find a book in the store similar to hers and get the publisher's name, the name of the writer's agent, then go to the 808 section of the library and read it. What you read and learn there will give you your next step in the process.

Nick said...

We know nothing about your mom's book. Perhaps, we're the wrong agent for her. She needs to google, or whatever, search for agencies dealing with the type of literature she has written. Once she has found a few agencies fitting her demographic, she needs to submit a query letter. She needs to find an agent who is willing to work with her. The agent, if impressed, by her query may ask her to submit the manuscript. He may shut her down, much like you did with Nitwit (no offense). If he asks her to submit the first chapter or so of her manuscript, she has one toe in the door. But she need not step into the room, because if the agent doen't feel comfortable with her script, or has simply had a bad day, or doesn't like how she phrased the second sentence on the third page, he'll shut her down. If likes her work, or has drank enough alcohol or has taken enough illicit drugs, he'll agree to represent her. (Agent acceptance is rare, because there simply isn't enough drugs or alcohol in the world.)

If she gets an agent to accept her, then he will market her work to a few of his publisher buddies over a golf game. Or maybe, he'll give them the drugs he was on--if he uses the Manson method, you're mom will have a sure fire deal: her book will be published and we'll see it hit movie theaters on December 12, 2008.

I hope my advice helps. Remember to the bottle of Jack, and don't forget the coke.

Southern Writer said...

Sherry D - It took Margaret Mitchell eight years to write Gone With the Wind on grocery bags she kept under the bed (or so I once read somewhere.)

And Alaska Salty, thanks for your kind comment. Actually, I do learn a few things the first time. In fact, some things I learn from others without having to make the mistakes for myself. It's rare, but it happens. Wonders never cease.

Southern Writer said...

I sounded like a stuck-up little snot there, didn't I? Sorry. Maybe I can alter that with an example: POD publishing is a mistake I won't have to make for myself. Paying a predator is another.

Ski said...

Dear Whomever you are,
Your Mother must be busy writing cuz she sure hasn't had the time to teach you manners. Here a quick lesson. Don't walk thru someone's front door without knocking while blurting out what it is that you need? This is a blog, not a personal answering service. Do us a favor; take a moment to do your own homework. We're busy here, were learning, and we don't have the time or the inclination to stop and powder your fanny for you. Do it yourself.

Love & Kisses,

Anonymous said...

By all means check AbsoluteWrite on the Lee Shore thread.

And also note that 'lee shore' is almost a warning. In the days of sailing ships, a shore downwind of the ship--a lee shore'--was something that threatened possible shipwreck. One of Patrick O'Brian's poet-sailors in the Aubrey-Maturin novels has a line about:

"The impervious horror
of a leeward shore..."

Squarehead said...

Lee Shore wants cash up front, they want you to pay them monthly there after. They told me I have a voice, since I'm not mute I couldn't argue that. They returned my manuscript after I turned down their "offer". I could tell it had not been read at all. The pages were all crisp and clean, I could tell it had not been read. Don't want to repeat myself again, stay clear of Lee Shore. You will find no shelter there.